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Establishing a new vegie garden
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Posted by Eamon Melb Aust (My Page) on Mon, Jun 20, 05 at 5:48
| Guys,
I am after a little advice. I have just finished digging out a corner of my garden and building a low retaining wall to complete my new vegie patch, my first.
I have some pretty terrible soil around my area (solid rock like clay) so i have dug it all to around 1 1/2 - 2 feet deep and removed the rocky stuff. I am about to get some top soil for the patch and was wondering if anyone can tell mw what to look for/avoid when buying soil.
Once I have the soil in I was thinking of throwing down some lucerne seed as green manure (heard this can be beneficial)just to get it going before I plant in early spring. Suggestions? I figure it would be too late to try and plant any winter crops now.(I am in Diamond Creek north of Melbourne).
Any tips for establishing a new patch would be gratefully appreciated, if I can learn from other's mistakes reducing the number of my own then it is worthwhile.
Thanks
Eamon |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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- Posted by finbar Central Italy (My Page) on
Mon, Jun 20, 05 at 11:27
| Hi Eamon. Before adding the soil, it mightn't hurt to dig in some gypsum to the clay soil you've uncovered. If you're buying in soil, best, if you can, to inspect the soil onsite before you buy. I bought in a load sight unseen when repairing my backyard after it was used as a builder's storage for a house extension. I ended up with wall-to-wall onion weed. Inspection's no absolute guarantee that you won't end up with onion weed or worse, but at least you can question the supplier and check the soil and that around it. It will also help to dig as much organic stuff as you can into the soil. My memory of Diamond Creek - and it's a distant one - is that there used to be horse stables around the place. Composted horse manure would be a very handy addition. |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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- Posted by pepino Werribee Vic (My Page) on
Mon, Jun 20, 05 at 18:51
| All good advice from Finbar. I wouldn't bother with the lucerne seed as it won't be ready for Spring. You want to add lots of organic matter and some gypsum to break the clay. As mentioned there are stables just up the road from you. Horse manure and straw are great addditions to the soil. When buying in soil it's hard to know what's what. If you have clay soil and need to add to it I'd get something sandy, but the best thing to add is compost - either manure, grass etc. For green manure we sow barley. Within a few weeks it's tall enough to dig back in. Good luck |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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here's a few test you can do when buying soil. Take a bottle of water with you when you are buying.
Moisten the soil between your finger tips and rub them together. A silky feeling with no grit is probably a clay soil. You don't want any more of that! A gritty feeling between your fingertipss indicates sand. Quite good to add to clay soil. Now make a mud pie in your hand. Make it into a suasage and try and bend the sausage into a U. If the sausage holds together and bends without breaking up this is another indication of clay soil. If the sausage breaks up, then it can mean a sandy soil and/or high organic matter. To test for organic matter shake a handful of soil in a jar full of water and allow to settle. The organic nmatter will float to the top.
The pitfalls of buying in soil is often the soil on sale in your area is the same as the stuff in your garden. The siol in landscapers bins is screened and looks nice and friable unlike the clay brick in your garden. Unfortunately once you get it home it turns into the same brick in a matter of weeks.( can you hear the voice of experience here?!!) landscapers often sell a lawn mix which is 50% compost and 50% weed free subsoil and is worth getting in, but much more expensive. I was told "don't waste it on a veggie garden luv" when I enquired after some. I bought it and it was worth every penny, as it was free draining, didn't compact easily and didn't dry into concrete. Whats more, by the end of the season it was full of worms too!
You have my sympathy if you are trying to garden on clay. I also found raised beds the best way to go, with the best topsoil you can find, and heaps and heaps of organic matter
and a very strong back!!
Good luck! |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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Hi Eamon
You have picked a good site for the advice above is all of good value...if you can get some topsoil from the Silvan or surrounding area you should be set
My advice too is not to go with the lucerne but to use either barley or oats
I would spread the topsoil and plant the grain and cover with composted manure if you can get it...and then dig the lot into the top six to eight inches of the soil about six weeks before you intend to plant your first crop...good luck and have fun
cheers
Peter |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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- Posted by Eamon Melb Aust (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 26, 05 at 6:15
| Thanks everyone for the advice.. I am going to buy soil tomorrow so hopefully i can find something decent. I have started composting here as well, in one of those pyramid shaped plastic compost bins, I have plenty of horses and cows etc just down the road from me so I might go running through the paddocks and see what I can find. Is there much difference between Cow and Horse manure? If so which would be better (as I said I have plenty of both nearby). i am going to mix it with all the leaves I collected in autumn to compost. Where do you buy the barley or oats from for green manure, I have a Diggers catalogue but could only find the lucerne. Again, thanks for your help, hopefully the next posting will be to let you know how well all the vegies are growing. Eamon |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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- Posted by pepino Werribee Vic (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 26, 05 at 18:35
Hi Eamon
Not sure about the properties of cow and horse manure, but we use horse and it hasn't got a heap of nutrients. The stuff we get is from a horse trainer and is mostly saw-dust or wood shavings which he uses as bedding etc. We find it is very useful to aerate the soil. For nutrients chicken is strongest and sheep is pretty good. What we use all depends on availability and price I suppose. To start off in clay I'd go either the horse or cow manure option to get the composition (ie to get a nice soil mix) then worry about the stronger stuff in small quantities later.
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Establishing a new vegie garden - barley
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- Posted by pepino Werribee Vic (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 26, 05 at 18:37
| Forgot to add; we get our barley from the local stockfeed place. I think you should be able to find it in small bags, although we get it in 40kgs bags. |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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I'd get everything if I where you Eamon, but if it's just to be one go for the cow. Apparently the horses digestive system removes most of the nitrogen. Stable manure contains urine which has nitrogen in it so is ok but if you're picking it up in a paddock go for cow, it's also easier to collect!
Make sure you compost it though to kill the weeds.
good luck
Sarah |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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Cow manure is much better, IMHO. I'm about to move to an area which is shale and stones. Oh joy. I break the surface, and spread Gypsum, a large paw full to a square metre. It really is good for breaking clay up, but the surface must be broken first.
Clay is full of good things, but they are unavailable to the plant, because the grains are so close together, the roots can't penetrate. Using Gypsum initiates the process. |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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- Posted by Eamon Melb Aust (My Page) on
Tue, Jun 28, 05 at 6:57
| A slight problem.... My good wife pointed out to me that I had bought treated pine sleepers to raise the patch. She asked me if it could affect the veggies... "nah" I said "it will be fine." A niggling feeling had me do a search on the internet and lo and behold she who must be obeyed was right. Hate it when that happens, but at least we know now. All is on hold now until I can get some new sleepers (not contaminated with arsenic). Has anyone else had any experience with this problem? I figure that even if it does not get into the vegies and affect us, it could not be good for the micro organisms in the soil. Any suggestions as to what sleepers to buy?, I figure red gum would be the go. In the meantime I will have to get some cow AND horse manure and stick it in the compost bin awaiting the new soil. Gypsum now on the shopping list also. Thanks again.. |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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| Eamon, When getting any organic manure, make sure it's either well composted all ready, or compost it yourself - I spread "partially" composted horse poop around and within 6 weeks, my garden was crawling with couch!!!! Oh well, lesson learnt. In terms of what organic fertiliser has the highest nitrogen content (as a percentage), this is what I found in my Yates Garden Guide... Cow N:1 P:0.4 K:0.5
Fowl N:2.1 P:1.6 K:1.0
Horse N:0.7 P:0.4 K:0.5
Pig N:1.1 P:0.7 K:0.1
Sheep: N:1.8 P:0.4 K:0.5 As Pepino said, Fowl is pretty strong so be careful - my MIL killed her vege patch with chook poo!
As long as you follow the golden rule of compost, compost, compost, you'll be right as rain. Good luck with your new vege garden! |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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- Posted by Eamon Melb Aust (My Page) on
Wed, Jul 20, 05 at 5:50
| I have now replaced the Treated Pine sleepers with red gum and have put the soil in. It looks pretty good. I went for a garden mix they called 'six way mix' mixed with mushroom compost. There is plenty of organic matter in it already and I have a large load of my own compost to add in a few weeks when it is ready. Thanks again for all the advice. |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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| Hi Eamon, Our vegie garden soil was reasonable (silty clay), but it certainly improved mightily with the incorporation of mushroom compost. All beds got gypsum and kitchen compost, but the best were those with mushroom compost as well. PS my hubby thinks I killed one of our cherries with chook poo even though watered in really well before and after. Take care! Helen |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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Hi Aemon
Sounds like you have done well...if your sleepers are not old ones...some of the old ones have been treated with creosote...another baddie Your mushroom composted soil sounds really good and I have one peice of advice which as is usual comes too late (if you did not think of it yourself) and that is to roughen up the surface of the clay by digging it over before putting the soil on top...the reason for this is because clay usually has a smooth surface and is not water absorbing...what happens is that when it rains or you water the topsoil the moisture that leeches down will reach the clay (where it is smooth) and it will run off because that is the way of least resistance...you will find seepage of highly nutritious blackish coloured liquid at some point...if you have dug over the clay so that you have a very rough surface it will prevent the leeching liquid from flowing and so it will soak into to the clay and enrich it with bacteria and soil fungus thus helping to created an even better soil...I am assuming you are on some sort of slope where you are
cheers
Peter
Good luck |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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- Posted by Eamon Melb Aust (My Page) on
Thu, Jul 28, 05 at 9:50
| I am on a slight slope. I did not specifically roughen up the clay before placing the soil on top, but then I did hack it out with a mattock, so it should be alright. I decided that a bit of cow manure would not go astray so i dug a good 2 inch covering of fresh manure into it along with a couple of inches of half rotted pea straw. I sowed a green manure mix of barly, oats, lupins and the lucerne I already had. It is starting to come up now, just in time for me to plough it back in... Oh well. All that is left is for me to plan what I am going to sow and start raising the seedlings in a few weeks. Working it out is half the fun. |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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| hi eamon, sounds like your on the right track. i've just been reading up on four square gardening and it seems to be a useful approach especially for beginners. |
Here is a link that might be useful: square foot gardening forum at garden web
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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Just wanted to wish you all the best with your new veggie patch.
Ray |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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| Thanks Ray, and everyone else. i will be sure to keep you updated. This small patch is all i have until I get my 50 acres in the country.... one day |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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| With what you've got in that patch, I'd throw the seeds at it and run!!!. Good luck, and a quarter acre is heaps, I can't believe how much growing room there is. |
RE: Establishing a new vegie garden
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- Posted by Eamon Melb Aust (My Page) on
Tue, Aug 9, 05 at 7:11
| quarter acre is heaps, however we have a lot of other garden that the boss won't let me turn into vegie garden, but maybe that will change when she tastes the homegrown produce? |
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