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rugosas

Posted by maddy58 ACT Aust (My Page) on
Sat, May 7, 05 at 20:56

I'm getting a new area to add to my garden,whooee! Would like to try some "old" roses and thought rugosas sound doable. Are there any hidden flaws: prone to disease? rampant growth? suckering problems? This is a whole new enterprise for me, exciting but I don't want to have a disaster. Would very much appreciate advice from old rose enthusiasts. Maddy


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: rugosas

Hi Maddy,
I feel a bit cheeky even attempting to answer on this forum because I really know little to nothing about roses. I just wanted to mention that I had been to an open garden. It was couple of acres and they had rugosas as a living fence on the border of their land. All I can mention is that they were HUGE! and extremely thorny. I almost felt they had thorns on their thorns. But they were beautiful!
Worked a charm as a fence...looked lovely and were impenetrable.
Dee.


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RE: rugosas

They bloom well throughout summer and into Autumn. There is quite a large variety, and some, like Rosa rugosa "scabrosa" have huge heps that can be used for jelly or jams. The smell is delicious. Susan Irvine mentions that scabrosa tended to self seed redily in her garden at Bleak house. Self seeding can vary with plants, from garden to garden.
I have grown "Rugspin" for 3 years and it is still only a small bush. I prune it back each year the same as the David Austins around it. The leaves always look extremely healthy, and give a good autumn show.
I have just planted out scabrosa, lily freeman and frau Dagmar Hastrip (sp) and have a Rosarie le l'hay to find a place for. I fancy buying more for a hedge at the back of our property. Misty downs has a huge collection of these, many of them only bred in recent times. They should all be fairly carefree.
Other old varieties worth considering - Gallicas are very easy care, and don't need pruning. They don't grow much over 1m tall, and tend to be lax. They mostly bloom only in Spring, but the blooms are gorgeous. There are a number that don't have very thorny branches, if you are averse to thorns.
Damasks - taller, beautiful blooms, and divine scent.


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RE: rugosas

Thankyou both. I'll probably have to wait till next winter to order, at the rate the building program is going but you have reassured me and I'll have plenty of time for research. Maddy


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RE: rugosas

  • Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
    Tue, May 10, 05 at 18:14

Talking of Rugosas. For me there are three distinct groups of Rugosas, and when I talk about disease-proof, I refer only to the first of these groups, and please, if your experience is different, believe me that this is my experience in Melbourne.

First group: R.rugosa, R.rugosa alba, Belle Poitevine, Blanc Double de Coubert, Delicata, Frau Dagmar Hartopp, Jens Munk, Max Graf, Nyveldt's White, Roseraie de l'Hay, Rugspin, Sarah Van Fleet, Scabrosa, Schneezwerg.

Second group (rugose foliage, but second class): Agnes, the Grootendorsts, Fimbriata, Lady Curzon, Martin Frobisher, Mme.Georges Bruant, R.x micrugosa, Schneelicht, Souvenir de Philemon Cochet.

Third group: Conrad Ferdinand Meyer, Mrs.Anthony Waterer, Nove Zembla, Rose a Parfum de l'Hay, Ruskin, Vanguard (BS magnet).

Given ideal conditions for growing, perhaps I am wrong to belittle some of these second and third groups, and they will perform better for some, but given some neglect, this is how I rate them. The blooms on all are fabulous, what better red than Mrs.Anthony Waterer, just a bit rust-prone. They are the most handsome of rose plants, IMHO!

Most of these better rugosas are available from Reliable Roses.

Sparaxis, could I suggest that you don't prune your Rugspin. Rugosas don't need pruning, and if yours is so small, then let it alone. Trying to grow amongst David Austin roses is quite a tall order, being crowded and all. Rugspin is a vigorous grower, and I can only suggest that it is sulking. But why prune it??

Here is a link that might be useful: Rugspin


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RE: rugosas

Why do I prune Rugspin? - Haha! COs it's there and I have the secateurs in my hand (evil grin)
Yes you are right - it is a bit much to expect it to grow with the DA's :-) I shall move it this winter to a nice place among it's friends. It doesn't seem to be sulking - gives a good display of blooms. At least it did after I discovered why it was losing it's leaves - the plastic label was strangling the trunk :-((


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RE: rugosas

Lozza,

Thanks for that bit of advice as I was considering what types to look for as I also think they're terrific. Can you suggest the 'smaller' of the Group 1's with good repeat as they are what I'm after. I particularly like the look of Rugspin, Frau Dagmar Hartopp, Scabrosa (just planted a heap of seeds and hoping - Thanks Jan!) and two others you don't mention Corylus and Hansa. Any ideas about these and if they're stocked 'somewhere nearby?'.

Garry


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RE: rugosas

  • Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
    Thu, May 12, 05 at 18:32

Frau Dagmar particularly, and Rugspin are in the lower growing Rugosas if grown as specimens. Corylus would be OK too, but I don't think it's in Australia. Hansa I've never had. Peter Beales has big wraps on it. Scabrosa and Sarah Van Fleet are big, perhaps Belle Poitevine also gets to 5'. The others are up to 4', and as wide or wider. Max Graf is a creeper. Beware of growing then close together or they will rise above normal height to get to the sun. I have Frau Dagmar up to 7' competing with Nastarana in close proximity. An oversight. I omitted R.x paulii from No.1 list.

Here is a link that might be useful: paulii


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RE: rugosas

Lozza

Which are the potentially highest of the group 1? I'd like to get a few to get to (eventually) at least 7 feet high and width does not matter. Would you go with Alba or Sarah van Fleet and how close would you plant to force them into being a high hedge? They will have to cope with gum trees in the vicinity but not within, say 3 feet - I know that's not much but I am trying to block views of a lovely nieghbour's house along my fence line.


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RE: rugosas

  • Posted by meryl2 Sydney/Blue Mts (My Page) on
    Fri, May 13, 05 at 7:25

Lozza, I have another question. Deep in the French countryside, I fell in love with a rugosa hedge with white, single flowers and overpoweringly wonderful perfume. Accordingly, one of the first roses I bought in Australia was R. rugosa alba; but it's not the right rose - the perfume isn't nearly as strong and beautiful. What could the French rugosa have been?


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RE: rugosas

  • Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
    Fri, May 13, 05 at 18:22

And Meryl, I have a couple of questions for you.

1. The fragrance of what?

2. What diameter flowers?

3. Do you recall the texture of the foliage?

4. What height the hedge?

If you bought R.rugosa alba, knowing it, and feeling it most closely resembled your hedge rose, perhaps end of story, and enhanced pong can be put down to the euphoria of travelling abroad. If you didnt know alba intimately, then perhaps there are other options. Please answer the 4 questions above to give me more clues.


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RE: rugosas

  • Posted by meryl2 Sydney/Blue Mts (My Page) on
    Fri, May 13, 05 at 18:53

Oh dear, we're talking quite a few years back and details get hazy, but you can count euphoria out. Have spent a fair bit of time in France over many years.
I didn't buy alba with foreknowledge, just with the description that it was a single white and seemed to be the only one.
Can't remember just where but I came across a reference recently to alba's perfume as "moderate" but I'd agree with that (though the opinion is only based on my one shrub and I've found individual plants sometimes vary from the variety norm); whereas the French one was enough to stop us in our tracks, though what, other than rose, it smelt of, I couldn't say at this distance.
Flowers, as I recollect, were about 8 - 10 cms across and the hedge about 1.2 m high. Does that help at all?


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RE: rugosas

  • Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
    Fri, May 13, 05 at 19:40

Certainly sounds like alba. All Group 1 Rugosas have the fragrance of cloves. Other options to my knowledge are Schneezwerg (flowers smaller), Schneelicht (smoother foliage), and paulii (petals widely spaced). Height OK, but varies according to surrounds. I think it can only be alba, so over to you. One other thing. If it was a warm, humid day, fragrance could have been magnified.

Pam, Sarah Van Fleet will make it to 6' at 3' centres. Conrad Ferdinand Meyer, Nova Zembla, Mrs Anthony Waterer, and Agnes will reach the height you want, but are second class rugosas, and you can expect rust.


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RE: rugosas

Thanks Lozza. I will be in touch early next week with Jean.

Which is the (white) alba with the best pong as I am faacinated with Meryl's memory. I'd love to have a rose or a hedge that stopped people in their tracks because of smell - even though I have very little smell sadly.


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RE: rugosas

  • Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
    Sat, May 14, 05 at 3:39

R.rugosa alba is the one we have been talking about. I don't think the pong would stop you in your tracks. Given the right conditions I suppose it might happen, but I always have to sniff. Definite cloves smell.


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RE: rugosas

Lozza,

Thanks for the advice. I may be in touch:)

Garry


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RE: rugosas

I have just planted some Rosa rugosa seeds, white and pink so it will be interesting to see what I get-assuming the seeds do grow. I did put them in the frig for a short time as i read somwhere that this helps.


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RE: rugosas

  • Posted by asm11 NSW far south coast (My Page) on
    Sun, Apr 27, 14 at 22:28

This is a very old thread but I still thought I might add my two-bits worth to it. lozza has obviously had a lot of experience growing rugosas in Melbourne but I thought I might just add a slightly different take on rugosa scent from my experience growing them here in coastal NSW. I planted a R. rugosa Alba along a fence line where it has in typical rugosa fashion thrived and flowered for the last three years (and even had a small seedling with the other parent a nearby Crepuscule I think). What sets it apart from other rugosas that I have grown up in the dry, cold tablelands is the scent. I can smell this rose even when I am walking past pushing the mower ��" so above the smell of petrol and cut grass. So maybe the fragrant mystery white rose of France was encountered on a day of soft, heavy humidity like we experience here more often than not.
Anyway, it is just an idea as I had never had such wonderfully smelly roses before I gardened in an area of higher humidity. And it is not just the rugosas, but the hybrid musks are also extremely fragrant on any day (when the air is still!).


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RE: rugosas

Hi,
I have just joined this forum and I was hoping to gain some info from Rose lovers.
I would love a rose hedge, I am in central NSW and we get temps 30 down to below 5 with snow. I have a sunny open area about 25 to 30 meters long that I would like to plant as a hedge. I have been thinking of a Rugosa Rose.
Any Ideas? I appreciate all input.


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RE: rugosas

Hi Joan, I know it's been awhile since you posted; I just wandered in here for a look-see. I grew 2 rogosa roses; rosa rogosa scabrosa and, well, I forget the name of the other one, a single with lovely pink flowers. I'm on the coast near Tweed Heads, a little on the warm side for most roses, especially, it seems for rogosas - they struggled for about 5 years and finally looked too sick to continue, so I removed them last summer. I'm of the opinion that out where you are they should perform better: Swains, the big rose nursery at Dural in Sydney, have their main propagating nursery out there, I think around Dubbo but I'm not certain of their exact location. The advantage of growing heritage roses such as rogosas is they are generally disease resistant - I never had any problem with black-spot or aphids with them.


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