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ensure the graft is below the earth surface
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Posted by kevarose Kangaroo Valley (My Page) on Wed, May 11, 05 at 5:07
| I do not know if this has happened to anyone else. My new Triomphe de Luxembourg was doing so well - not as big as the other teas that I planted late last summer but it was OK. The hose was in the bed and with gentle pressure I pulled it around the rose and the graft snapped off - 2 or 3 feet of branches coming from one rounded "knob" - now there is nothing left. I am so sad as I loved these blooms the best of all. I put the branches in water and may try to strike cuttings. I did not yank the hose - it seemed to me it was on there (ie the graft) in a very fragile manner. Maybe there is something to be said for own roots? Or planting deeper in the future so that the graft is below the earth surface and it can develop its own roots? As I wanted this rose in this position, I guess all I can do is try for cuttings or buy another a year later.
In future, I will ensure the graft is below the earth surface. Any ideas? |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: ensure the graft is below the earth surface
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Sorry to hear about your loss Kevarose-I would cut all the canes into segments and plant as cuttings.Even if only a couple survive it will be great but the older roses usually strike readily from cuttings.
I always plant my roses with the graft under the soil level
for a couple of reasons-
1- I think rose bushes look silly with one leg coming from the ground and then branching out further up.
2-It gives the rose a chance to make its own roots and therefore become stronger.
3-for the same reason that you just experienced-the graft point is always a weakspot-even more so on standards.
Good luck with the cuttings.
regards
sandie |
RE: ensure the graft is below the earth surface
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| Thanks Sandie - this is a lesson learnt! And I think you are right - they do look silly with the graft sitting up above the earth. |
RE: ensure the graft is below the earth surface
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- Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
Wed, May 11, 05 at 18:12
I agree that the notion of a rose branching from understock some inches from the ground is undesirable. This can be avoided by planting with the scion at ground level. The idea of planting the scion underground has several drawbacks.
1. Ideally we try to keep the rose producing new basal canes from the scion, and pruning out old wood greatly assists this happening.
2.Many OGRs (Pimpinellafoliae and Gallicanae especially) will sucker and spread out, giving great reproduction, but with a great reduction of blooms. However, it is a free country. |
RE: ensure the graft is below the earth surface
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| Thanks for the advice Lozza but this little Triomphe was a weak bare rooted rose in that it has been far slower than my other teas and now it snapped off. The one shoot that it came with perished about 6 months ago and I mollycoddled it with lots of biocycle watering which helped it produce another healthy looking basal shoot. So for this rose, it would have been better to have planted it below the surface. I will watch with the pimpinellafoliae and gallicanae but then I like the idea of suckering in some places - I am moving Charles de Mills to a place where it can sucker away and form a thicket. But I will prune if you think this reduces blooms. |
RE: ensure the graft is below the earth surface
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| Each to their own on this one. A lot of books written for frost-prone areas recommend under-surface planting to stop the graft from freezing. That doesn't apply to most of us. I have the opposite view, and in recent years have been planting the graft slightly higher than normal above the ground - so long as the rootstock is nice and sound. Over time, mulch and organic fertiliser builds up to narrow the gap. Having the critical upward stems away from sources of rot, soil bacteria, fungus, gardening forks etc is a big advantage. It's also good to be able to cultivate and weed safely at the base of the plant. And it's especially good for sucker identification. I would shudder about the idea of planting a grafted rose under the surface, where you can't see where new shoots have sprung from. (You can do what you like with 'own root' roses, where the whole bush is one variety and suckers aren't an issue). |
RE: ensure the graft is below the earth surface
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| True, why graft or buy grafted roses if you don't like the way they are produced? Just take cuttings. Less cost in the first place that way. As a general rule the rootstock is a stronger plant, or has other attributes, and that is why the desired rose is grafted or budded to it. But try everything I reckon. If it suits do it. |
RE: ensure the graft is below the earth surface
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- Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
Thu, May 12, 05 at 1:50
| Or rather, the hybrid is too feeble to produce or grow on its own roots. |
RE: ensure the graft is below the earth surface
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| There's a positive in everything - today I went off and bought some coarse sand and could not get any peat moss so used some fine compost and a big styrofoam fruit box and "planted" all the cutting of Triomphe I could get, cutting them jsut below a bud, and then got carried away and added lots of cuttings of Graham T and Othello and Alfred Carriere. Tomorrow I might do a lot more of other things. I have never done cuttings seriously - stuck a cutting in a bit of soil and it has always died. But now I have a metal rack just near where I go out to the chooks each day, and just in the right amount of light but not hot and with a bit of luck and daily watering, maybe I will get some cuttings. I am sad to have lost Triomphe but this has spurred me on to new adventures. |
RE: ensure the graft is below the earth surface
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hi kevarose ,where we live its extremely windy and I mean extreme but we wanted to grow roses and everyone I grew kept blowing over, so I emailed swanes and their advice was to plant the graft just below the surface to give stablilty and when pruning my roses to prune them a bit lower than usual ,well whether this is right or wrong my roses have flourished lots of beautiful flowers, better root system AND THEY DONT BLOW OVER ,and now we have 3 large rose beds (about 90 roses)but to each his own its working for us and havent had suckers as yet ,sorry if I have stood on anyones toes but it works for us
lorraine |
RE: ensure the graft is below the earth surface
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| I have just bought 12 standard iceberg roses, and after reading this, I am wondering if I should plant them with the graft below the surface. What do you all think? .............hahaha...........only kidding .........if I really had 12 standard iceberg roses, I would be planting them MUCH deeper than that. |
RE: ensure the graft is below the earth surface
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LOL!Sparaxis,that would be 12 REALLY deep holes.:)
Back to burying the graft-I personally have never had a sucker of the rootstock on any of my roses-maybe I am just lucky.
regards
sandie |
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