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I told my niece that someone here....
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Posted by
annie_____ RELAX! It’s QLD (
My Page) on
Tue, Mar 21, 06 at 0:54
| would know the name of this rose which she found hidden in the "garden" (and I use the term loosely) of the old house she bought.
thanks,
Annie |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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How beautiful. What a find !
Love to know what it is myself. |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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Judging by this picture only and strong flash used that changes the colour of the petals and stamens ...
Hybrid Musk Ballerina?
Or her close relative, Mozart?
It's obviously not some old, spring flowering rose, so this is my guess.
- Tom |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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Looks like Dainty Bess to me.
Definately not Ballerina as the flower is too big and she flowers in trusses. cheers Deryn |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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- Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
Tue, Mar 21, 06 at 22:07
| Way off the mark Tom. As Deryn said, Dainty Bess it is. |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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Annie....It is the Rose on the Right Hand side of the opening page of the " Oz Garden Gallery ".
I remember Tricia telling us that it was put there in remembrance of Rosemary...
Cheers..MM. |
Yeap
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Yeap, it's Dainty Bess, although not wrinkled :-)
Good find in your new garden anyway! Someone liked older roses, that's nice to see.
- Tom |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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| Dainty Bess is not an old rose she is a modern floribunda introduced in 1940. However, she is beloved by many people who grow old roses as she is really beautiful and is repeat flowering Deryn |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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Thank you, one and all.
I knew I'd get the answer here.
I'm off to tell my niece.
cheers,
Annie |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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- Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
Wed, Mar 22, 06 at 12:26
| Dainty Bess is classified HT Deryn. Not that it's terribly important. Just so there is no confusion. |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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| Lozza, Botanica Roses lists it as a floribunda. Probably another of those roses that the experts cant agree on D |
HT or Floribunda or ...
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Glad you mentioned that, Lozza. I'm also confused why people refer to Iceberg to be floribunda, although it is not. In almost all catalogues in the world it's noted as such. Mass misconception about the world's almost most famous rose?
Maybe one of those things that really is not that important, anyway. Life is full of them. |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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- Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
Thu, Mar 23, 06 at 12:44
| Tom, if 'Iceberg' is not Floribunda, then as what should it be classified? No need for confusion, it is classified Floribunda in the "bible" of roses, Modern Roses #. Whether we like it or not, the Americans through the American Rose Society have set up a repository of accurate details of all roses bred and raised, and still in commerce. All with tongue in cheek, but it is a serious attempt to establish an acknowledged collection of information about roses. It is acknowledged by the members of World Federation of Rose Societies, and that is all of the rose societies of the world's nations. Heritage/Historic people are hesitating at the gate. Why this should be so, I can only surmise. The question of relevance of the Horticultural classification of roses as compared to the Botanical classification remains dubious at best. It can be seen as a coincidence of time and perceived change, such as the declaration of the first HT in 1867, and Floribunda in the mid-1930s. These and the declaration that all roses bred before 1867 are OGRs! Or is it 1900? Depends on who you listen to. According to MR11, 'Dainty Bess' is HT, and 'Iceberg' is Floribunda. Amen. Botannicas, Helpmefind, and the rest must be taken with a grain of salt. Modern Roses12 is presently being prepared for publication, and I would urge serious rose people to apply to ARS for a copy. |
Iceberg
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'Iceberg' (bred by Kordes, 1958) is usually classified as a Floribunda but is really a Hybrid Musk Rose, being bred from a cross between the Hybrid Musk 'Robin Hood' and a Hybrid Tea Called 'Virgo'.
Iceberg was used to produce roses with a different kind of beauty, drawing upon the particular character of its Musk Rose ancestors, and among those are The English Musk Roses, the third established group of English Roses bred by David Austin (Anne Boleyn, Charlotte, Crocus Rose, Graham Thomas, Heritage, etc.) |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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- Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
Fri, Mar 24, 06 at 15:14
| Tom, In the real world, a rose is classified by the breeder when he registers the rose name. If Reimer Kordes declared 'Iceberg' to be Floribunda, who are we to argue. One is on shaky ground to become too acquiescent to the horticultural classes. My research on the race of Hybrid Musks uncovers nobody willing to connect R.moschata, except to refer to it as "several generations earlier". Jack Harkness goes so far as to suggest that the class should be split up into Floribundas and Polyanthas. He also declares that Joseph Pemberton was pugnacious and well enough connected with the NRS to have the class established. Jack tells us that Joe referred to R.moschata as the "godmother" of his roses. Harkness prefers "remote ancestor". Some unkind enough might suggest the he usurped the Lambertiana class, having based his breeding programme upon 'Aglaia', bred by the German rosarian Peter Lambert, well before Pemberton began in 1913. And then WW1 came along. Adios Deutschland, and "There'll Always be an England", and self-proclaimed classes of new roses. |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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| Annie: I have this beautiful rose, Dainty Bess - and it needs to be kept away from the hot afternoon sun or it shrivels up it's delicate petals. I hope you have it growing in the right spot. When I bought mine, I didn't know anything about it except that it was "dainty" and I am glad that I left it in a pot to see how it performed so now I know where I need to plant it in the ground: away from the afternoon sun. I can't wait to see it re-flower next summer. ...Janine in Melbourne |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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- Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
Sat, Mar 25, 06 at 15:42
| Janine, if this is the type of bloom you appreciate, buy its offspring 'White Wings'. Another you might appreciate is 'Fruhlingsmorgen'. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Fruhlingsmorgen
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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| Annie ----- now see what you've done!!!!!! |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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| The only think I'm concerned about is I thought Dainty Bess was quite a small rose but this one is big, equally as big as Altissimo. |
RE: I told my niece that someone here....
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- Posted by lozza Vic. Oz. (My Page) on
Sun, Apr 30, 06 at 20:44
| If what we have all declared to be 'Dainty Bess' in your experience is as big a plant as 'Altissimo', and I mean 10'x 8', then I also would be wondering. From the bloom, I can't see it as 'Sparrieshoop', but that grows to the dimensions of 'Altissimo'. I don't have a mature 'Dainty Bess' here, but believe it will reach 5' tall. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Again Dainty Bess
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