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palms - goodies or baddies?
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Posted by Amelie SE QLD Aust (My Page) on Tue, Jan 21, 03 at 22:15
A question in the trees and shrubs forum got me thinking about palms.
Actually I had been thinking about them for a while because anything I plant in my front yard, where a dozen inherited Cocos palms are (soon to be removed I hope), doesn't grow - exceptions are a Jacaranda and a Leopard tree which seem to be doing OK. I'm guessing the roots of these trees go deeper than the palm roots and they can get more nutrients? Everywhere seems to be a mass of fine matted roots.
I wondered what experiences others had with palms - good and bad.
I also have various other palms in my yard. Should I be worried about the root system of all palms or are some OK and if so, which?
I have planted palms with other trees in a 'rainforest' type area. Here the trees seem to be doing quite well and the palms not too well though they're still small (mainly Alex).
I'd appreciate any feedback. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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Amelie, I am a bit biased but the cocos have to go. All palms spread their roots superficially and can interfere with other shallow-rooted plants. I think for SEQ you can't go past our native palms. Piccabeens I like better than Alex's - they grow faster and are prettier, especially when in flower, cabbage tree palms are nice, and walking stick palms are small and good for shady areas,the NQ fan palm, licuala ramsayi is lovely but very slow-growing. All do best with part-shade when young but can be grown in the oen apart from walking sticks. There are a good variety of rainforest trees available depending on the size and location of your garden. Happy planting!
Tony |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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- Posted by Jari SE Qld Aust (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 5, 03 at 17:25
| I think palms as large as Cocos tend to slurp up a lot of water depriving other plants around them, smaller ones aren't so bad. Jari |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| I agree, the Cocos not only deprive other plants of water and nurtrients..they are dangerous. The flower pod are so high you have to call in professionals to cut them down or they could easily drop on someones head. The fruit also attracts rats and mice, and they love to breed right up the top of the palm in the rough and use the large branches to run along to roof tops. You can tell if you look at the branches whether or not they are there, as one or two of the branches may look shredded. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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oooohhh, I knew vermin loved the seeds but I didn't know they climbed up to get them - what a horrible thought!
I guess we've been 'lucky' with ours - only one has borne flowers (twice) in the five years we've been living with them.
My plan is to remove them - I hate them - more for the fact that nothing will grow near them - than for their appearance. I just was hoping to have my suspicions confirmed.
A couple of Sundays ago in the Sunday Mail (Brisbane) there was an article saying that cocos should be removed from all gardens.
Does anyone actually like the things? They've made me think twice about all palms ... |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| A palm nursery reckons many palms are OK but Royals, Cocos and a few I don't remember can and do cause root damage. They claim palms that cause damage are the ones that lift the soil around the base of the trunk so avoid these if you are planting near any structure. Doug. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| And a pool chap I know is very anti Golden Canes in that context: sez the roots form a hellava mass about important structures if too close. Mine grew all over and around my leaky pipe when I wasn't looking. Rose. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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Generally as a rule I love them. But now I have my garden beds in with expensive garden soil imported in specially, I'm not so keen. It seems as if next doors palms quite like my new garden beds and I am finding it hard to plant anything new due to the palm roots coming through. Aaarrrggghhh!!! I hate next doors palm trees!!!!!
Cheers, Mel... |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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- Posted by Amelie SE QLD Aust (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 10, 03 at 21:34
I didn't ever think of palms roots as being such a pest. I suppose seeing those huge advanced specimens in palm nurseries growing in tiny little plack plastic bags you kind of assume they don't need much space for their roots - but this doesn't seem to be the case - maybe it just proves that they're very adaptable and a bit of a weed spreading their seeds everywhere.
I like Doug's tip about the soil being lifted at the base of the palm but I won't have to think before I buy because I don't intend planting any more palms in the ground. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| Some palms don't need much space, you've just got to chose the right ones. For example, do not get Royals or Cocos palms as they take up a lot of space, but palms with skinnier trunks often don't take up much room. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| What is all the fuss? I have never been to Australia, but we have a similar climate here in Florida. We have palm trees running amok up and down the streets, growing out of cracks in the concrete, obstructing fences, spray painting graffiti etc., but I have never heard anyone besmirch their good names over something like their root structure, or maybe dropping unwanted seeds, or even attracting rodents as dinner guests. Let's face it, the rodents will always find something to eat. The queen palm, as well as most others, shouts out "tropical" and is a very attractive. I have heard complaints of pine and oak trees dropping too much debris. What about the fruit trees attracting rodents, I think a rodent would much prefer a juicy (fill in this blank with the type of fruit tree in YOUR yard), than what ever he may get out of your palm tree. As you may have guessed, I like palm trees, although some I like more than others. I just have never heard this argument before, and I think you are giving queen palms a bad rap. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| sjenkins, I agree and I love palms, except for the Queen Palm (or Cocos as it is incorrectly called here). The whole of the Queensland coastline is either tropical or warm subtropical but many gardeners have this 'thing' about palms. They would much rather have some out of climate tree such as a messy liquidamber or similar trees. I just think that here some palms have been in some instances overused. Wholesale growers are producing only a few different types instead of going into some of the very attractive rarer types. When people come and see some of the rarer types in my garden they say, "I must have that" but often these palms are hard to track down. We also have a colonial background and many people for some reason feel compelled to replicate the gardens of 'motherland England' for some reason, even in the tropics and subtropics. They are my views on it anyway.
Andrew. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| Palms are goodies. Their growth is predictable, their roots do not continue to swell with time like tree roots and because of this do not cause the same sorts of problems with driveways and foundations as many trees do. And yes, you can grow stacks of things under them - don't worry about the roots - Broms, cordylines and many others can provide stacks of colour. Just select the right type of palms and the correct placements to establish a canopy so that dappled shade is produced and the understorey planting colours up well. I like the red neck palms, carpentarias, solitary palms to name just a few. Scott |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| Unfortunately all it takes is for one tv presenter to give his/her view on a certain plant and all of a sudden the whole of Australia follows his views. Palms are a valuable addition to any garden and even the queen palm has its value down south. In many climates they would kill to grow palms in gardens. Those who complain about palms dont know how to appreciate them |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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- Posted by Maurita SE QL Australia (My Page) on
Sun, Jan 11, 04 at 5:26
To me Palms mean Queensland, balmy tropical evenings and beaches. I'll never forget my wonder as a child, driving over the Queensland border, after a 2 day trip from Cooma N.S.W and being confronted with slowly swaying palm tree's, blowing in the warm air. Yep, some places just aren't the same without palm trees,
Maurita |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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- Posted by paulki Brisbane Aust (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 3, 04 at 22:53
| Palms are not goodies or baddies - it depends on the type. We inherited a bunch of Cocos (or Queen - didn't know that was the correct name) Palms and I really want to get rid of them. They drop goo and seeds which gum up the garden and the nature strip, attract bats (which is not so bad - but I shudder to think of rats doing the same thing) and are complete weeds, spreading across our garden and probably into the bush. Also, the fronds hang around dead and can't be removed cleanly and are scratchy and messy when they are removed. Having said all this, there is a Bangalow Palm in the middle of them which I love and will definitely keep and probably plant more of. Attractive looking, cleanly dropping fronds, nice shade and native to SE Qld. Our suburb is filled with palms but I can never understand why they are all Cocos Palms when we have such beautiful native species. Anyway,
Paul |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| Go check out the www.pacsoa.org.au site. There you will find a fairly comprehensive list of palm species. Then go to www.palmsforbrisbane.com.au There you will find a pretty good selection of palms for sale. Check out Merojejya, Kerriodoxa, Pelagodoxa, Salacca. Some very attractive palms. regards peter |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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The very occasional palm I can live with in the garden. We have far too many and I'm really beginning to hate them. I agree with Mel they become a real pain in the butt when you are trying to plant something through their enormous spreading mat of roots. They drop their fronds for a past-time. Except for those growing in their natural habitat the only good palm is a dead one (on the bonfire)!
Cheers Jan |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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Jan,
It is all about choosing the right type. Not all have matted root systems and besides, you are living in Queensland which is a palm climate.
Andrew. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| How can you live in QLD and hate palms? Thats like living in China and hating chinese, it doesnt make sense. Palms are symbolic of the tropics, and QLD without palms would be like Australia without Koalas. I disagree with all the palm bashing here, even of the queen palm, for which it has its place in many gardens. It is beyond me why people concentrate on vilifying a slightly invasive palm rather than all the other faster, more vigorous weeds and pests in the tropics. Leave the palms alone! |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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Jan and Mel
Note Andrew's last comment - it IS all about selecting the right palm for the site. Don't blacklist a whole family of plants because one or two of them has offended you. Would you avaid men for life because one of them once farted next to you in a checkout queue? As I said once in an earlier response, Queensland has a marvellous range of garden-friendly native palms, and if you havent found one yet that you like, keep looking!!!!!!
Tony |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| How can I kill a mature c. 10 m (Queen I think) palm? |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| In response to Dirty Digger, I tried to poison one by drilling 6 2.5 cm wide holes deep into the middle of the palm, on a 45 degree angle so it would hold the 50% 1:1 roundup mix. 1 year later and the damn thing said thanks very much and looks even healthier than before. I would just cut it down with a chainsaw. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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Ummm, could be hard....its the neighbours! I'm glad you told me though because the hole drilling plus roundup seems to be the common (myth?) way
Dirty Digger DownUnder |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| Hi All, After kicking myself for planting so many Golden Canes (less than a metre apart..) in my rush to get *something* around my Gazebo, I have decided to let nature take its course and see how my 'screen' pans out. I can easily thin them out as they grow, and it wont break my heart if I remove the bloody lot : I cant say the same for any of the natives that occupy the remainder of my block - I'd cry tears of blood if they disappeared. OK, maybe that lone Dawson River Weeper .... I agonised over the plantings for my final garden bed, directly in front of the gazebo, before deciding to bite the bullet and get 3 good-sized native palms (3.5-4 metres currently) and use these as the basis for my tropical 'room'. My rationale is that I cant think of a 12 metre tree that I could plant 6-8 metres from my house without concerns re the root system, but my Alex/Solitaires should be fine, and the appearance of palm fronds seems more in tune with the native tree ferns I consider to be the best 'tropical' plant in the world. Yes, folks, I have a 'dog's breakfast' in my backyard, but I suspect that I'm not alone - there are natives and exotics which I just *had* to have, even if the pink of my Crepe Myrtle looks way out of place in a 'rainforest'. Just my two cents worth :) Cheers, Artie |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| We just love our triangle palms and ponytails (not really palms ) I dont think. Man came with huge truck and all the equipment and planted them all for us, also removed a huge bottle tree so pool building equipment could go down the side of the house then came back and popped it right back in. Buy em really big and let someone else do all the worry. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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- Posted by Sundu North QLD Aust (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 26, 04 at 7:57
| palms are fantastic, but if you have limited garden space there are much better palms you can plant than the Coco's palm (depending on what else your climate allows of course). Personally, I really don't like Coco's palms at all, they are not the most presentable palm, and they are very very common, and compared to many other palms they are messy. Why not be a little selective. If you are going to dedicate some garden space to a palm or palms, plant something special that is worth the effort and space. There are so many great palms available in Australia. Just my thoughts. . . . |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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- Posted by roysta Gosford NSW (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 29, 04 at 16:20
Gee I don't live in the tropics but have tried to give my front and side garden that sort of look.
In the front we have, among other things, 4 Bangalow palms, 6 Alexandras and 2 Cabbage Tree palms.
Down the side we have 3 Alexandras and 8 Bangalows.
Many of these are at 3-4 metre height and look bloody fabulous.
When we first moved in here 3 years ago there were three 10 metre Cocos palms.
After a year of mess from "the little orange balls" they were removed.
The fruits wands from the Alexandra and Bangalows are so much easier to deal with and they look good. Roy |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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On a recent visit to the Sunshine coast I was amazed to see the number of "cocos" palms......Syagrus rom. If we are going to plant exotic palms, then in that area, there are many FAR more attractive palms which grow well. For example, the Bismarckia grows very well, but is hardly planted. There is a huge list of much better palms than Syagrus rom.
My advice, echoes Andrew [ coral coast tropicals].... check specialist palm suppliers but dont ever plant a syagrus rom. cheap and nasty !!! |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| Hi Chris, I guess its horses for courses - I dont like Cocos (or Cubans ..), but I consider the Bismarckia to be the most 'artificial' looking palm I've ever seen. I can understand that some people like the 'living sculpture' thing, but they leave me cold. Perhaps I'd be converted if I saw them in their natural surroundings, but many Rocky gardeners seem to have used them as feature plants, in front gardens containing very little else : very surreal. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| Me, on the other hand... absolutely love bismarckia. So, I think each to their own. I love red latan and triangle palm too....or other types of fan palms. As far as the other palm, I don't mind them, but I won't have too many of them. Oh... and I absolutely love my coconut palms too.... True tropical feeling for me. Just pick the plants that you like and stick with it... my advice. Palms or no palms. Regards, Ari :) |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| Rhapis excelsa, the lady palm, anyone who can't appreciate this palm is no gardener. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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- Posted by kath70 adelaide,aus (My Page) on
Fri, Jan 7, 05 at 8:52
| have just bought a selection of palms. No Cocus not very attractive . Does anyone Know much about Majestic Palms. Also would like to Know if you can propagate boganvillia. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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- Posted by slain qld aust (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 12, 05 at 3:11
Well I think Palms are great, as composted mulch they are fantastic!!! Spent the last two weekends on a very satisfying palm massacre, all that fresh empty space to put some attractive natives that might actualy survive is great!
I can appreciate palms if selected well and used sparingly but too many in the wrong spot just looks cheesy. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| I would be wary of Majestic palms as I have had two of these where they have gone rotten in the middle - mushy white pith. I have no idea what caused this. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| I live in Melbourne and have been offered two coco palms (at least that's what I was told they were, very tall, lots of fronds). After reading all the other entries about the problems, I am now wondering whether I should accept the palms. I don't know anything about growing them in the garden, I have only ever grown them in pots. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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- Posted by deejaus Melb.Vic. Aust (My Page) on
Sun, Sep 25, 05 at 21:35
Hi Jillybabe,
I had two Cocos palms (in Melb). They started off as pot plants but got too big, so I planted them in the garden. They grew big quickly and started to interfere with quite a large area of garden and lawn and had grown so tall they looked like telephone poles. They really added nothing to the look of the garden. We decided to remove them a few months ago and already the garden and lawn are improving. Needless to say, my advice is DON'T DO IT!!
Cheers,
Dee. |
RE: palms - goodies or baddies?
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| One thing many people forget when planting single trunk varieties such as Alex, is that they are very attractive when small but can reach 20m plus. Imagine looking out the window of your two-storey house and seeing a bare trunk! There are plenty of smaller varieties more suitable. Also don't forget the cycads for that tropical look. There are plenty of varieties to select the right palm in the right place. Like any plant, do some research first so you don't regret it later. Any plant in the wrong place is a pest. There are plenty of speciallist palm nurseries around to select something a bit different. My personal favourites are Rhapis, Triangles and Kentias (Howea sps)- these ones excellent in cooler climates, Foxtails and Golden Canes (prefer just keeping to 3 or 4 trunks). |
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