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Thu, Oct 13, 05 at 1:06
| Having read all the posts in Baby photo's I am gobsmacked at the collective knowledge and feel like a right twit in comparison. I have just potted up my 216 seedlings and wanted to ask a probably very dumb all things considered) question and not look like a raving idiot. Do any of you graft tomatoes - a Greek fellow years back explained that this is a custom in his neck of the woods - to take two sturdy plants and graft one onto the other. He claimed that the two rootballs helped feed the plant and give it a 'good foundation' and I must say he had tomatoes like trees. I'm not sure if he grafted the weakest onto the strongest or vice versa or whether there really is some advantage in doing this? I used to just buy plants and stick them in the ground - now I'm getting enamoured of the beasts! Humbly, Linda |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Linda, Ozmantis grafts some of his and he'll chime in I'm sure. In subtropical to tropical climates, some people use grafting as a means of reducing nematode attack by choosing rootsock that is less susceptible. That means they remove the rootstock of the plant they're growing. Whether or not grafting and leaving both rootballs in place adds anything or not I couldn't say. I'd have thought though that the plant will put out whatever roots it needs to sustain itself. Some years back on some gardening show or other, I saw a tamarillo (at least I think it was a tamarillo), with tomatoes and eggplants grafted onto it. The guy had a tiny backyard and this allowed him to grow all three in one place. Remarkable! PS The only dumb question is the one that's never asked! |
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- Posted by trancegemini_WA Aust (My Page) on Thu, Oct 13, 05 at 2:58
| hi cosmic, Ive done grafting in the past and ozmantis posted some pictures of his grafting in the thread below. usually grafting is done onto a rootstock variety which is stronger, or disease resistant. I dont think having two rootstocks necessarily makes the plants stronger because the more vigorous rootstock will often outcompete the original rootstock anyway, but that more vigorous rootstock gives you a stronger root system. ozmantis is experimenting with different types of graftings at the moment too |
Here is a link that might be useful: grafting thread
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| Cosmic, a lot of growers lay the stem down in a trench so that a bigger root system can be achieved. This is particularly useful with leggy seedlings. |
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- Posted by ozmantis VIC Aust (allan.richard.m@edumail.vic.gov.au) on Thu, Oct 13, 05 at 3:44
| Did someone call my name :-) Hi Linda\ I have grafted a few this year just to see how they compare with their non grafted kin. I have left both root balls on all but one. Heres a Prudens Purple planted out  A Carbon  An Anna Russian  A Brandywine suddeth  |
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| Lomatia's post just made me realise that I do the equivalent all the time. When I plant out my tomato seedlings, I always plant them deep, virtually level with the first set of true leaves so the seed leaves (cotyledons) are buried. Tomatoes will send out roots wherever a stem is in contact with the ground. If you wanted to try grafting, New Gippsland Seeds sells a grafting kit which includes root stock. I've also heard that Tommy Toe make very good root stock because they have a very vigorous root system. |
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- Posted by Cosmicgardener N W TAS (My Page) on Thu, Oct 13, 05 at 23:59
| Thanks heaps folks. I think I'll stick to shoving them in and letting them take their chances - it all looks very complicated. Lovely pictures though - and 4 more tomatoes I've never heard of! Ray, I do the same - not sure why or how I came to do that but maybe instinct counts for something. My Dad was a commercial tomato grower in the 40's in UK beleive it or not! I must have learned something other than to appreciate that addictive scent> Have a good weekend. Linda |
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- Posted by ozmantis VIC Aust (allan.richard.m@edumail.vic.gov.au) on Fri, Oct 14, 05 at 3:53
| One thing I just noticed from looking at my own pics is how many hairs are on the stems below the graft. I think I might build the soil up a bit. Not sure if I should bury the actual graft but I may just try it on one. |
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| A mate of mine who grafts mangoes and other fruits for a living grew a grafted rambutan tree about 15 years ago. He let the tree grow to about 2 years old then he planted 6 rambutan seedling trees around that tree at about even spacing and out about a metre or more depending on were the branches come out. The graft was what you would call an approach graft, when the seedling trees got to the same height as a branch off the main grafted tree he simply scraped the bark off ( as they say down to the cambian layer ) then he would tape them together with grafting tape and eventually the whole 6 was grafted. When the grafts eventualy took he cut off the top of the seedling plants above the grafts a few years later when the grafts healed it simply looked spectacular. more or less like a banyan tree only with edible fruits. sorry for getting off topic but i have often wondered if the same could be done to a beefsteak type tomato but maybe only 3 or so seedling plants grafted to the main tomato plant.( off dreaming agian to the ultimate tomatoe ) Linda after you plant your tomatoes I am sure you will have some left over, why not experiment with the rest. One of the main reasons for grafting tomatoes is to beat various problems wilt, and namatodes. Namatodes can be beat by chemicals ( namacur) where as wilt can not be beat by chemicals, but be careful because desease can get in through the graft either when grafting or when soil splashes up onto the graft when watering or if the graft is planted close to or below the soil. hope this helps Linda Keith. |
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- Posted by Cosmicgardener N W TAS (My Page) on Fri, Oct 14, 05 at 17:50
| Thanks Keith - I might just do that since I have 230 seedlings coming on! By the time spring finally arrives I'll have space in the garden where the broad beans and peas come out. Don;t think I can ask for another veggie bed just yet...... Linda |
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| Oh , you can so!!!!. "It's not pathway, it's just unused tomato ground" And remember God's Eleventh Commandment.... "Plant More tomatoes". |
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- Posted by Cosmicgardener N W TAS (My Page) on Sat, Oct 15, 05 at 2:12
| It took enough power of persuasion to convince the lad that we needed a gravel path all the way across the garden and not just for 6 paces to the hothouse. I'll be working on the guilt trip after he gets home from bowls - worked with the kids - gets mixed results with Roberty-Bob but a sigh in the right place can be useful ;-) Lovely day here today - I have declared today Tasmania's Spring. Gawd knows what tomorrow will be! |
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| Linda Broad beans, where a cover crop should have been in preperation for the tomato crop, what were you thinking :-) |
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| On another note, I gave away a grafted Brandywine Suddeths to a work mate today. I hope he looks after it. Fret worry fret. |
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- Posted by Cosmicgardener N W TAS (My Page) on Sat, Oct 15, 05 at 18:46
| Hah-ha - broad beans have their place in the grand scheme of things too you know. Make excellent compost too. Keeping to the thread of silly questions; my Dad used to play classical music to his tomatoes, he reckoned they hate that new fangled rock and roll which we kids liked. So any of your experts play music to your offspring? If so what do they think of Rap? I hope your friend looks after your babies - I'm going to cadge some worms from a mate today and I know he'll fret..... Caffein calls! L |
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| Strictly baroque - Bach, Vivaldi and all that. Actually, I don't play it to them, I hum it to them! |
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- Posted by Cosmicgardener N W TAS (My Page) on Sat, Oct 15, 05 at 23:54
| Four Seasons seem appropriate . I'm a Mozart, Rimski Korsakov, Bizet fan meself ;-) A bit of Carmen ( my grandie by the way) should bring on the Italian types? Just stay away from Tschaikovsky though - you might end up with bi-polar tomatoes! Boss is calling - cart more gravel............ |
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- Posted by Cosmicgardener N W TAS (My Page) on Tue, Oct 18, 05 at 21:09
| OK - Here's another question. I notice that a variety I've planted called Stupice had 'plain' secondary leaves not serrated ones like the others. I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation but being A NOVICE I have no reference. I noticed someone mentioning Potato Leaf so assume there are different leaf forms. Any guidance - have I bought Hybrids or something? Cheers Linda |
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- Posted by ozmantis VIC Aust (allan.richard.m@edumail.vic.gov.au) on Wed, Oct 19, 05 at 0:04
| Yes Linda it is a potato leaf type. A small bush type plant that produces up to ping pong ball size fruit. A lot of people love the taste of it. Mantis |
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| If it's of any interest Linda, there are some varieties that produce this potato leaf foliage, in fact, some of the best. They say that such foliage is better able to cope with foliar disease. Another type is called rugose which is rough and a bit leathery. This foliage too is said to cope better with foliar disease. Personally, I find Stupice quite variable in flavour. Some years it's good but others it has an almost unpleasant after taste. Probably environmental. |
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- Posted by Cosmicgardener N W TAS (My Page) on Wed, Oct 19, 05 at 23:12
| Thanks for the clarification, Mantis and Ray. I assume then that different varieties will have different leaf forms, but how do hybrids leaf - say you cross pollinate a potato leaf with a serrated ( what do you call those?) or rugose leaf. Would the hybrid favour one over the other? Also how do you know if you've got a hybrid? I did warn you that I follow the philosophy of Socrates - more questions than answers! I'll see how Stupice turns out now I know that it really is a tomato and not some wierd throwback with a disease of the leaves! Any good books you can recommend for a fledgling tomatoholic? Cheers Linda p.s I saw a picture somewhere of one called Tasmanian Cream - I have no idea where I saw it or if indeed it exists, it doesn't seem to be on your lists. Any clues? |
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| Hi Linda, Haven't heard of Tasmanian Cream. There is one called Tasmanian Yellow, perhaps it's that under a different name. The regular leaf foliage (the typical serrated edge) is dominant meaning that if you cross a regular leaf plant with a potato leaf plant, for example, the first generation offspring will all be regular leaf. In the second generation you'll get roughly 3/4 regular leaf and 1/4 potato leaf etc, etc. There's really no way to tell a hybrid from any other tomato. Hybrids are the first generation (referred to as F1) after a cross and will usually be pretty uniform. If you planted enough seeds saved from a hybrid (you're into the second generation or F2) it is there that you may start to see differences. Before the discoveries of Mendel became well-known, plant breeding consisted of selecting for desired characteristics. Once people realised they could cross pollinate deliberately, plant breeding took off. Sadly, those forms of plant breeding are all but dead or dying as genetic manipulation takes a strangle hold. |
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| Ray is a Mendel Case. It's a full moon again. I apologise. |
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- Posted by Cosmicgardener N W TAS (My Page) on Fri, Oct 21, 05 at 0:24
| So long as he isn't wearing recessive jeans you should be safe.....it's actually a disseminating moon but whose counting ;-) L |
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- Posted by ozmantis VIC Aust (allan.richard.m@edumail.vic.gov.au) on Fri, Oct 21, 05 at 4:37
| I've got my old dirty jeans on and have just emas...., emascul.... , well, pulled the anthers off a College Challenger flower. I plan to cross it with either Cherokee Purple or Brandywine, depending on which can give me enough pollen when the flower is ready. Have you guys sown my Nepal x Tommy Toe I sent you?? I have two in and going well. Nothing to report yet except that the plants are not like the mother plant which was Nepal. Funny bloody weather down here. I am thinking of crossing my thongs (footwear here folks )), with my mocosins to produce Mocothongs, the all weather footwear. Cheers Mantis *off to the fridge, again* |
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| Haven't sown those seeds yet Richard. Ones already sown are still running on idle. Just not warm enough yet. |
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| Looking forward to seeing the Mocothongs, kind of a NSW/Victorian cross!!! Sarah *who's just been to the fridge* |
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