Hi Paul
I was under the impression it was not illegal to grow peyote in OZ unless it could be proven it was being used as a drug.Besides there are other hallucinogenic cacti besides
Lophophora about.
Dave61

It was true until recently. Apparently they are now treating it something like.. "If it can be used as a drug, or classed as a drug" then they are now cracking down on it. Apparently they have gotten a few people already. These were not cacti and succulent growers, they were dope growers who had a Peyote or two on the window ledge, but they were actually also charged with possession of Lophophora.

Maybe one day they will differenciate between growers of plants as a hobby and users of the plants. Oh well, no great loss, as I don't think they actually have any great flowers or such.

Also there apparently was/is a web site down south advertising seeds from these type plants - even it is being looked at by the authorities.

What is the botanical name for this plant? Or where can i find a list of such plants that are rated as drugs? I had better find out whether any of my plants are rated as drugs if the police are after them.
Thanks
STEVE

Lophophora is one name the species goes under, with a number of varieties under this.

Hi Guys
I believe some of the Trichocereus are physchoactive as well
The drug squad would probably be able to tell you what you can and can't have.Maybe there is a website somewhere.
Regards Dave61

They will have there time cut out, as the same goes for Brugmansia ( Datura ) and the ipomea as they are both used for drugs. I am sure they have more to do than go around looking at peoples collections :-) The Khat tree has been a problem in NZ . Heather

Peyote = Lophophora williamsii. I noticed that the original poster was from QLD. Anyone know if this is a state or federal thing ?

It is a federal thing. My information is quite solid, as it comes from a friend in the enforcement area involved. The state authorities are also co-operating with the feds in this regard as well.

They are not actually targeting hobby growers specifically, but if you were dobbed in, or investigated for any other offenses, then they will also add the growing of a prohibited species to your list of offenses.

so is lophophora williamsii illegal to keep in a collection or illegal to attempt to use it as a drug

As Alcors said, the possession of this drug is an offense. Obviously if possession of it is an offense because it is a hallucinogenic drug, than the use of it will be too!

I think it would be quite clear whether people are growing Lophophora as part of a genuine and varied collection of cacti and succulents, or whether others are growing only peyote cacti such as Lophophora species and Trichocereus peruvianus for other reasons (is this ringing any bells for you and your mate??!).

Yep, even if you had 2000 normal cacti and only one tiny little Lopho, they can still nab you.

don't think they would worry too much in my part of the state. they don;'t even worry about the mary-jane users, and the main dealer lives three doors from the cop shop.

The plant not a drug ,it becomes a drug only after it has gone thru the process to extract the drug.
I fail too see how they can prosecute for drugs unless you have extracted the illegal substances.
Mariuhana requires no processing ,besides drying ,but from what I understand exracting peyote is quite an involved process

police who steal peyote from people, who have say about 5 in a neat bunch would be creating and act which is completely unjustified. people who for some reason have peyote and dont know about the alkaloids, a cop stealing a rose bush would be exactly the same. there is no proven basis yet to confirm that you grow the peyote directly for human consumption.
some good links are if you dont know yet
www.ethnobotany-australia.net
http://lycaeum.org/
www.erowid.org
www.island.org

on top of that, the trichocereus species are absolutely no different to peyote, or a rose bush for that matter.
as for a mescaline extraction from the cactus, wouldnt a synthesis be more productive? and if its for you or friends, dont extract it, dry it, or better yet have it fresh. what would the gods think if they gave you a magical gem, and you took out the good bits and disposed of the rest?

alcors2's posting on Mon, Oct 15, 01 at 7:11 said: "Also there apparently was/is a web site down south advertising seeds from these type plants - even it is being looked at by the authorities."

I don't know if he is refering to me - I have a little business - Arizona Cactus Garden, selling seeds of cacti and succulents. In 2002/2003 I had 4650 different seeds on my list, in 2003/2004 there will be over 5000. In 2002/2003 I had seeds of 20 different species, varietas and formas of Lophophora for sale. I've been selling cactus seeds since 1991 and Lophophora is definitely one of the most popular. Most of the seeds of Lophophora are always sold within a few weeks of publishing new seeds list (usually 1st of July every year), because the supply is very limited - I can get them only from my suppliers within Australia - the plant is classified as a weed by the department of Agriculture and Australian Quarantine & Inspection services not because there is even the remotest possibility of the plant spreading in the environment as a weed, but because of the notoriety of the alkaloids and halucinogenic effects.

On my order page I posted the following statement:

Note on mescaline bearing cacti.
Hundreds of species of cacti contain various quantities of mescaline or other alkaloids, consumption of which has effects similar to LSD and/or other recreational drugs. All species and varieties in the genus Lophophora are best known as peyote and mescal and are in greatest demand by those who intend to use it as a recreational drug. It is not illegal to sell, grow and posses the seeds or plants but because I am aiming to supply cactus hobbyists with seeds for growing the plants, not for eating them, I reserve the right to refuse to sell the seeds of the mescal bearing cacti, where I suspect that the plants will be grown for consumption as a recreational drug. In the past I had orders for seeds of nothing but mescaline bearing cacti. These were declined.

Perhaps because of that nobody from law enforcement agencies ever questioned me about Lophophora seeds and if they did, I could absolutely asure them they are loosing their sleep (or wasting taxpayers money) for nothing. Out of the MANY MANY thousands of sales I had over the years, there wouldn't be more than a dozen that I strongly suspected they were going to grow the plants for use as a recreational drug. Whether they ever succeeded is another question -this plant is not easy to grow. Though my customers report very high germination rates, it requires great skills to keep the plant alive even in a sterile environment. And plant eating insects (snails, slugs, slaters, caterpilars) love lophophora plants - I lost many of my peyote plants like that.

According to one website you need about 13 grams of dried peyote buttons for a trip. That is dozens of plants many years old. Even a pea sized seedling is selling for $25.00. Can you imagine how much it would cost you to buy...

All the Mammillaria species have alcaloids that produce hallucinations when the dry plant is chewed. They have mescalina, anhaloina and lofoforina. In Mexico is called peyote, Mezcal or peyotle. In south USA Mescal buttons. In the USA the recollection and traffic is prohibited

Lets face it the average thuggish lack intelligence of your standard copper isnt going to see this 'initiative' go anywhere. To do so theyd need trained botanists in the field and thats going to cost big big bucks for very little political brownie points - so guess what no funding no results. The best you can expect a copper to learn is Pot and peyote and the latter thyere probably only going to recognise by teh fact its growing in the same room as the pot (!)
The amount of psychoactive cacti let alone other garden plants boggles the mind and there is absolutely NO WAY they can scratch the surface of it without forbiding gardening altogether - even then the amount of weeds that also contain 'drugs' is amazing too
This initiative is just straight harrassment and violation of our right to mind our own business
There may be a few cops who enter the force for solid reasons but most either start off or become institutionalised thugs
If they take your peyote its because they are reminding you that they are cops and you are nothing
Reason has no place here - its about power and putting you down and for those people who get off off on sadism and abuse of power - the police force is a natural magnet, or gestappo or whatever its called on the day
And lophophora is so delicate that even mild abuse will jeopardise its survival so even when you win you lose - thats the way they like to play
so what cand you do? ignore it
The poor cactus is endangered (CITES) as it is and it needs looking after till such time as it can be rehabilitated to its former range.

as has been noted wiliamsii is illegal here in the states unless you are operating on a reservation with the proper permits. this is the kind of blanket law that irks me. it's easier for the government to just outlaw a plant than to make conditions which require more work to investigate. it is also used (as has been mentioned) as leverage or adding charges to someone who is already uinder investigation as they arent likely to find one in a collection in general. here (Tennessee) actually i KNOW no one even knows what they look like lol. this is the kind of thing that has irked me for years-- in regards to things like papaver somniferum. it obviously irked enough people that some of the somniferums have been renamed and therefore are legal in the US-- ie papaver peoniflorum (sp cant think of it right now) which is the double form of somniferum. it is beyond silly. it really just hurts the home gardener. those who wish to engage in grwoing enough somniferum to make the drugs for business would need feilds.. and would be obvious. there are soooo many plants that are toxic.. and other things as well... that are legal. this pick and choose is stupid.

You can "trip" from crushing and consuming morning glory seeds, and you can get that ANYWHERE. So I guess the cops had better come confiscate and burn all the morning glories.
Absolutely ridiculous.

Also many varieties of papaver (poppy) . Many ornamental varieties are descended from the original opium poppy and apparently still contain opiates. I guess that its a case of if the police want to they can arrest you for all this, however it is not worth the paperwork involved if it can be proven to be not 'drug' related. A peyote in a cactus collection is a triumph to cactus gardeners who can grow it, I wish I had one. I have seen it available as seed online though. Cheers!
(afterthought: the police confiscation of cane toads would be a better enforcement of this law, my cousins teenage kids tell me you can 'trip' by licking one YUKKK!)Not interested myself, you can probably die doing all this also.

well, you know the old story about kissing a frog and it will turn into a prince!!!!

Hi all
Thought i would post this extract from Arizona Cacti Gardens in Victoria.
"Hundreds of species of cacti contain various quantities of mescaline or other alkaloids, consumption of which has effects similar to LSD and/or other recreational drugs. All species and varieties in the genus Lophophora are best known as peyote and mescal and are in greatest demand by those who intend to use it as a recreational drug. It is not illegal to sell, grow and posses the seeds or plants"
I have been looking to find an actual Law or Act on Lophies/peyote and I cant find anything specific. If someone can, i'd be interested to know how it reads.
Adrian

Hi again
Ooops, sorry ACG - I should have read all the posts before I posted the xtract. Well, I do have another question - does anyone know where I can obtain a few plants of 'Pereskiopsis Velutina'? I have seen some pictures of lophies grafted onto them and they are massive. I have one lophy, for hobby only, among my other few hundred various cacti and I want to experiment with grafting. I have also seen them grafted onto myrilo and tricho's but I want to try something a little different. Cheers, Adrian

Ive seen them too :)
they look great - of course absolutely useless for drug consumption but thatll be more than evident to anyone who tries :) But they do have excellent potential in another field. A lot of teh Lophophora a see around are of two cultivar morphs, the caespitose types, one almost looks normal but grows fairly tall and fast but does flower, and the other is like a growth or lawn of tiny buttons and does not flower.
theese are easy to graft and divide and so most peyote ive seen are of this type. This doent help the species much. we need many individuals from type localities so we can maintain the individuality of the landraces. Sure we can hybridise too but to do so its really helpful to be able to know what the parents are. the only way to do this is by seed but it takes so damn long till they flower (but they are pretty)
Apparently in Japan seedling grafted can get them to flowering size in 18 months using these techniques. They could then be regrafted or degrafted to their own roots.
Now... self fertilised L williamsii dont make many seeds (5?) but cross pollinated ones make several times that.
at $27.50 to $33 for 100 seeds, let alone what the tiny 1 and 2 year old cacti sell for that makes a hobby pay for itself. Not bad in these days when you need any supplemental income you can get - particualrly for non-self funded retirees on the pension or disabilty etc..
Ive seen cacti nurserys stoc rooms where they have 10 ancient specimens of each species (all types) as their seed stock and given the demand at present it would be a good idea to have 20 or so seedling grafted mother planst of each varietal. And the mothers are valuable too, i bough a caespitose from Victoria a few years back now, pretty big for $40. The same sized cacti and smaller now retail through other outlets n ethe $160 range. No-one eats a $160 cactus - its furniture, a talking piece, a piece of living art.
Even if you were anti drugs you would soon realise if you thought about it that there is absolutely no way in the world you are going to hurt anyone by selling these as by the time they are big enough (if they survive) the person will prob have lost interest or grown so attached (as i have)
If they succeed in growing it theyll probabaly pick up a few other types of cacti, maybe some ariocarpus becase it too has past usage, some obregonia because its related to lophophora and then some more and etc etc a cactophile evolves (personal experience). If they fail they will give up and move on.

Besides anyone whos anyone (someone who has don homework on matter) KNOWS that you dont waste your time with the low strength pachanoi, unreliable peruvianus or snails pace peyote - T bridgesii and the penis cactus, T bridgesi var monstrose are the desirable ones, the rest are only good as collectibles and grafting stock.
That said im afraid i have a habit that grew out of my interest in psychoactive cacti :( I now obsessively collect trichocereus,...

Quick story:

At the botanical garden I worked at last summer there is a service called "Hortline" where people call in and ask for plant help. This one lady called every couple weeks asking what growth conditions maximized the opiate production in P. somniferum. Her frequent calling made the think of "are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?"

Anyway, she told me that her entire back yard was filled with it (filled!). One day she phoned asking how to process it and that was too much for me. I told her to search elsewhere. hehe

Well I'm glad that no one's worried about peyote taking over Canada. It's entirely legal and I've known several people who have taken part in peyote ceremonies! Not for me, but hey, whatever floats their boat.

there are only 5 plants illegal to grow in australia. opium poppy, kratom, pot, coca and salvia divinorum. the tga the people responsible for schedualing these plants knows nothing and i wouldnt be surprised if things like morning glory and other ethnobotanical plants are made illegal. the tga cant even get facts about salvia divinorum right and they have the idea if it can be used like a drug we will ban it.

I believe that Papaver somniferum is only illegal to grow in West Virginia. (Too bad for the toothless and shoeless) I've grown it from seeds I bought on eBay.

Opium poppy is not illegal to grow in australia (I think). Growing it for its opium content is, however, which is much the same for many plants. If an illegal mushroom grows on your property, or you have poppies in your front yard that is fine, but if u also happen to have a bunch of information about how to use them as a drug, then u may be in trouble. Kratom plant is not illegal until later this year, its the herb that is now illegal (May 1st).

Jon

Yes growing Opium poppies without a permit is illegal

3 plants are specifically covered E coca, P somniferum and cannabis. The exception is that poppy seeds are excluded because they are a food.
Now theyve added Mitragyna speciosa and Salvia divinorum via the TGA schedule 9
Meanwhile we still allow public advertisment (pushing) of alcoholic drinks and Tobacco can be bought at any corner store.
crazy stuff

It is unconstitutional for Federal Police to do anything concerning drugs or potential drugs in the States except to prevent them entering the country (and possibly crossing state boundaries). Drug possession, trafficking, etc comes under State jurisdiction. Victoria has a clear precedent that it is not illegal to grow plants that have a potential to be used as drugs. The precedent covered Opium poppies. The grower was convicted of extracting opium but charges for growing them were dismissed.

If the Queensland Police want to get serious, the Brisbane Botanic Gardens would be reduced to a lawn

BrianB

I wondered why my grandma was able to grow poppies in her front garden in Victoria!

What about the alkaloids in the Aizoaceae (Mesembryanthemaceae)

Here is a link that might be useful: The Mesembs.

whats your website vlado for buying the peyote plants?
There going extinct in the wild because druggies dig them up and get high on them. I am a botanist and would never use them for any purpose except for growing. Do you ship to U.S. vlado? Please supply me with growing and care instructions vlado.

@$#%!ing stupid man cant post pictures

This is funny. I tried to bring up this topic on another cactus forum and my thread got deleted and I got the boot. It is great to see at least some open discussion about this topic. In my opinion, banning a cactus just because some idiot might try to eat it and get sick seems pretty dumb if you ask me. Afterall somebody could go chomp on any of hundreds of species of garden plants and have hallucinations or die. I should imagine even if you ate enough gum leaves off a Eucalypt you would soon start feeling pretty crook.